Leadership in Turbulent Times

Steve Hall recounts a meeting with Nelson Mandela that reframed his view of leadership: "You did what you did with the information you had at the time. The important thing is, what are you going to do from now?"

Steve Hall

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:06

I wasn't expecting this, and so I walked up the stairs of his house in Houghton, and there at the top of the steps was Nelson Mandela. And it was this huge turning point for me. And I had the chance to ask him a question: Will my past be held against me in my future? He said, You did what you did with the information that you had at the time. The important thing is, what are you going to do from now? And in many ways, that completely changed my life. I realized I had a role to play in leadership, I had a role to play in changing perceptions because my perceptions had been so radically altered. How do we lead into a world that seemingly is way more turbulent? And what sparked my interest many years ago was this concept of human energy. It sounds wonderfully easy in a podcast, and yet it is a lifelong journey. But I think the fundamental thing is am I aware? Am I really aware that my energy has a crucial determinant on my performance? And my energy has an impact that I can't just think about my skills. I must also take into consideration what is my energy.

SPEAKER_03 1:21

Hi there and welcome back to Voices of a Business School hosted by AVT Business School. In this studio today, we are pleased to welcome the great leadership expert Steve Hall. Hall has been working with leadership development for more than 30 years. And in this very episode, Hall takes us on an incredible storytelling tour through his life, his experiences, and his valuable insights. From growing up as a young man in South Africa, meeting Nelson Mandela in his mid-20s, changing his fundamental beliefs, and now passing on that incredible journey of learnings. At AVT Hall, teachers are students how one leads in a turbulent world. And coming from a country that has been through an enormous amount of turbulence, Paul definitely has some extraordinary insights. Letting us in on how one becomes a more powerful and reflective, strong and effortful leader. Hall states that it most certainly is not merely about skills. No, rather it all comes down to a journey of energy. So tag along if you're interested in tips on how we perceive our own energy levels, how you charge your own batteries for you to be the best leader as possible, and nonetheless, how to sustain that great energy. I promise you that that this episode is definitely a special one. We can't wait for you guys to be let in on his wise guidance as well. So without further ado, thanks for tuning in and let's dive into it.

SPEAKER_04 2:57

So here we go.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Perfect. It's wonderful to be here.

SPEAKER_04 3:00

So hi Steve.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Hey Meda, it's really good to be with you today.

SPEAKER_04 3:04

It's so nice that you came by. It doesn't echo your uh no your face.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Not at all.

SPEAKER_04 3:09

So nice that you wanted to pop by our little podcast studio.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Well, it's an honor to be here in the city of Copenhagen.

SPEAKER_04 3:15

So, how is the battery? Your energy battery. How are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 3:20

The battery is being charged. It's been an incredible trip. I've experienced the most amazing hospitality, and I'm learning a lot while I'm here.

SPEAKER_04 3:27

That's lovely. Steve, you're from a very, very interesting country called South Africa, and you have been working with leadership development for more than 30 years now. So would you please start with giving us a little background about who are you and what have brought you to where you are today?

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Yeah, for sure, madam. South Africa has been an extraordinary place for 400 years, actually.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

It's uh it always seems to be in a crisis. And I grew up in an old South Africa. I grew up in an apartheid era. I grew up where the white minority was in charge of the black majority, and it was a really, really interesting time. Uh, because of that system, all white men were eligible for national service, and you really only had a few choices. If you didn't go to national service, you could go to jail, or you could leave the country, or you could defer your military service until you had studied. And I wasn't sure what I wanted to study, so I followed the stream, and I didn't have the courage then to stand up against a system that was unjust. And so, like many white males of my age, I did two years of national service, essentially uh supporting a system that was incredibly unjust. Less than six weeks later, uh I left the military and I was a student then at the University of Cape Town. And it was an extraordinary turning point in my life because two years from 1988 and 89, South Africa was fighting two separate wars at the same time in Mozambique and Angola. And I was very much supporting that system. Six weeks after that, in February of 1990, Nelson Mandela gets released. And it was this huge turning point for me where I thought, what have I been doing for two years? Supporting a system that's essentially designed to keep people like him separate, disconnected, and away from their populace. And here I was now suddenly as a student at the age of 20, celebrating the release of somebody that I had actually tried very hard to be a part of the system against. And it was this incredible turning point for me. And I think it was the birth of the new possibility in South Africa. Uh, it was an incredible turning point in not only the country, but in my personal life. And it got me to question what I have been doing in my past that may not be serving me in my future. I had the most extraordinary opportunity to meet with Mandela. Um, the story is quite entertaining because my father was invited for a breakfast. And I immediately jumped on the bandwagon and said, Well, I'm coming with you. I was then in my mid-20s, and he said, Well, you're not coming. And I said, I am, and he said, You're not. And I said, I am, and he said, You're not coming. And eventually I said, Well, why not? And he said, Well, because you're not invited. I thought, well, that's fair enough. That's okay. Well, and so creatively I thought, well, maybe I could masquerade as his driver, as his chauffeur, and that at least would get me into the gates of his house in Houghton, and maybe I would get a glimpse of this world icon, this man who many thought he was such a terrorist, and ended up being the grandfather of a nation. And and so I I drove my father. My father thought this was a very plausible plan. And so I drove him as his chauffeur and into the gates of his house in Houghton. And I watched my father go up the stairs uh and greet Mandela, and I thought that is such a cool moment. This is like amazing. You know, there's my father, and he's greeting Mandela. And this was not unusual at the time in terms of businessmen being invited for breakfast. It was all about nation building, and and so it wasn't that my father was anyone special, but Mandela had this incredible inclusivity, and it was all about reconciliation, and it was all about inclusivity, and it was all about forgiveness. And I thought, well, that's brilliant. My uh my goals have been achieved. I've seen the old man, and he was referred to lovingly often as the old man. And about 20 minutes later, my father came knocking on the door of the car and said, Quickly come, the president wants to see you. I wasn't expecting this, and so I walked up the stairs of his house in Houghton, and there at the top of the steps was Nelson Mandela, and he greeted me as if he would have greeted anybody else, if it was the Queen of England or my father, a businessman, or any of his politicians, and he greeted a driver, is which is what I was, and he looked at my father somewhat in an admonishing fashion, and he said to me, Young man, when will your father learn that if there is a place at the breakfast table, you do not leave somebody in the car park. And so he invited me in for breakfast, and there was my father and another businessman in Mandela and a place at the breakfast table. He pulled the chair out for me with those extraordinarily soft hands and kind smile. And I had the chance to ask him a question, and the question that had been plaguing me for many years was Will my past be held against me in my future? Will what I was a part of, being an apartheid regime and apartheid military, as a white South African male, will that be held against me in the future of the new South Africa? And he looked at me for a while and he said, after some time, he said, You did what you did with the information that you had at the time. The important thing is what are you going to do from now? And in many ways that completely changed my life. Um I realized that I had a role to play in in nation building. I had a role to play in leadership, I had a role to play in changing perceptions because my perceptions had been so radically altered uh through the meeting uh that I had with him.

SPEAKER_04 9:53

Oh my god, would I have loved that seat around that table as well? That must have been incredible.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

Yeah, it was one of those rare moments where time stands still. The ancient Greeks used to talk about kairos moments, kairos moments where the moment is not defined by the quantity of time. It is defined only by the impact of that time. That it stops, the clock stops, and it becomes a moment which may last for eons, which may last for the rest of your life, which may in fact change the course of your thinking, the course of your perceptions, and therefore the course of your behaviors.

SPEAKER_04 10:35

Well, Steve, here at uh AVT you're teaching our executive students about how to um how to lead in a turbulent world. I mean, you come from a country that has been through tremendous turbulence throughout history. Can you give us a little bit? What what is the world like in South Africa at the moment?

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Yeah, Meda, it's uh it's an extraordinary place. It has been in a crisis for many years and continues to be in a crisis in many ways. Somehow South Africans find a way through, whether it's from different regimes or uh you know different challenges. Uh and the popular term is this VUCA world. You know, the world is so volatile, this acronym of VUCA VUCA. The world is uncertain, the world is complex, the world is ambiguous, and maybe South Africa's uh leading the charge in this saying where we are next level, volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous. And maybe the e-VUCA is the exponentiality of things. You know, the world has always been volatile, actually. It's not new. Um, I would imagine in the First World War that things were pretty volatile. Stock exchanges have been volatile for many years. Um, I think things were uncertain during the Great Depression for those people that went through it and and and times in our lives where things have been complex and ambiguous. And yet I think maybe things are just happening at such an extraordinary pace these days that the way we lead into that world may in fact be challenged. How do we lead into a world that seemingly is way more turbulent than what we might have been used to in the past?

SPEAKER_04 12:20

So what is uh kind of the the essence of what it is that you are teaching uh these uh senior executives when they want to become even more powerful, more reflective leaders? What's you know what what's the core of the necessities you need to possess in order to be uh a strong and and a good and an effectful uh leader today in your eyes? Can you elaborate a little bit on that?

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Sure, yeah, madam. In many ways, I guess it's going back to some basics and to fundamentally find out what are these pivot points, what are the non-negotiables for us in a leading or leading in a world that's fast changing and turbulent and very uncertain. What are the anchors of certainty, or as Margaret Wheatley beautifully writes, the islands of sanity? Where do we go for some degree of solace, for some degree of confidence, for some degree of support? And what sparked my interest many years ago was this concept of human energy. And the very simple analogy is that you can drive a million kronas worth of vehicle, and it's not difficult, I guess, in the Nordics or anywhere else in the world to find very expensive motor cars, and it could be worth a million krona in South Africa. I guess that's two and a half million rand. And you'd find vehicles for 150,000 US dollars. I mean, it's not difficult. And the question is why? Why do we spend that sort of money? Well, we want the efficiencies, we want the effectiveness, we want the beauty of the car, we want the brand, we want it to have brilliant ABS braking, it must have fabulous uh acceleration, it could have great steering columns, under-seat heating for your Copenhagen winters. It's gonna have all the bells and whistles, and so we spend a million krona or more on a vehicle. But the question is what happens when someone leaves the lights on or your child plays in the car and all the the radios have been left on and the gimmicks and the electrics have been left on. The point is that your car's not starting. The battery has run down. And the battery might only be worth 2,000 or 3,000 krona or 1,000 krona, whatever it costs, but the battery is fundamental to the operation of the vehicle. It can be worth a million krona, but with a flat battery it's not worth much. It's just gonna stay in the garage, and today your bicycle is your most important asset. And so I looked at this and thought, how do I bring that into human terms? Because I was noticing around me that the world was full of skills. Uh, there were degrees and diplomas and amazing business schools like AVT and offering some extraordinary skills training and development, and and yet I was wondering if our batteries were charged, and that a million krona of vehicle can be held ransom by a 2,000 krona battery. I wondered if that was the same with human beings. That we can have degrees, diplomas, experience, we can have networks, we can have products to sell. But do I do any of that stuff well if my battery's flat? And what do I need to do to keep charging my battery? We could put in a new steering column, we can put in leather seats, we can put in Bose sound systems, we can have an extraordinary time building this incredible machine or an incredible culture in our business, or but what's the state of the battery? Have we got some energy? Have we got some spark in our battery? And that led me uh on a journey of energy.

SPEAKER_04 16:06

So, what's your advice for people to get a grip on this saying, okay, I would like to be more aware of you know what gives me good energy or whatever? How how can you work with this? How can you become, you know, much more aware of what is actually positive for me, what recharges my batteries? Are there any tips, tricks, anything you can start work with just to explore it a little bit more?

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Yeah, absolutely, Meta. I think that the work that I've been doing and and some of the themes that have been emerging with executive groups particularly and and and top teams, but also with sports teams and schools and NGOs is a fundamental realization, is that my battery is my battery. And the old thinking that I need to go to work to be motivated by my boss might need to be challenged. I'm not sure that it's my boss's job to motivate me all the time. I I can't expect my father to keep charging my batteries. We can't, as a country, expect Mandela to keep charging our batteries, we can't expect our mom to keep charging our batteries or our boss. That's not really their role. Of course, they can be helpful, they can provide context, they can provide comfort, they can provide beautiful leather seats and podcasts and fantastic things to do that engage energy. But fundamentally, I think the first realization is that my battery is my battery and your battery is your battery. We've got to think how do we charge our own batteries? I can't be reliant on jumper cables from somebody else's battery all the time. And so when that realization starts to emerge, um, the second thought there is that my energy is crucial to my performance. And the discussions we had in the last two days with this amazing group from uh the MBA class at AVT was really about is it true that your performance is linked to your energy? Yes, you need your skills, but do you use your skills better when you've got a spark in your battery? And you know, even the simple act of driving a motor car. There's some days you drive well and there's some days you drive badly, and it's not because you've forgotten how to drive, it's often what's the energy that you're using? Are you stressed out or are you relaxed? Are you aware or are you angry? And that's going to have an impact on the traffic. So, first and foremost, your battery is your battery. We need to increase that narrative that yes, I'm here to help as a manager, as a leader, but I can't be responsible all the time for your battery because otherwise my battery gets drained. The second thing is that if we agree that our energy is crucial to our performance, then let's think about how we build that energy in a team function as and as individuals. And then the third, overridingly, is that our energy is virally infectious. And so my energy has an impact on you, and your energy has an impact on me, and what's happening on the streets outside of Copenhagen is having an impact on us right now, and even what's happening in the Ukraine. Energy is virally infectious, both positively and negatively. And so, if we take those three concepts, we have building blocks to say, firstly, it's our responsibility. Secondly, let me be aware that my performance is not just about my skills, but also about my energy, the spark in my battery. Now you could call that commitment or you could call it attitude or motivation. Pick a word you like, but for me it's the spark in the battery. And the third is am I aware that my energy is possibly affecting somebody else right now? Is it positive or negative? And when I'm aware of that, we can really bring energy into the discussions.

SPEAKER_04 20:00

Sounds easy, but yet it is probably some of the most difficult things to to to actually work with because it's so deeply funded in in the way we are and the way we behave. But uh is there anything you think you you could start with? Um uh yesterday in class you you presented somehow a way you could, you know, literally draw some faces, whether it has good or bad um influence on you. Is there anything you could when you sit there at home and say, okay, let me try to map out what gives me good energy and what I should you know get rid of. Is there any any ideas to yes, absolutely, Meta?

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Again, as you so rightfully point out, it's it sounds wonderfully easy in a podcast. And it yet it is a lifelong journey. It's a it's a lifelong journey of energy, realizing that we have twists and turns, we have good times and bad times, and we have to do that. Of course, yeah, yeah. It wouldn't be, you know, no journey is exactly a straight line, is it? You know, it's never a never a straight line. And uh and so, yes, indeed, I think three um kind of major themes have merged out in terms of so if we stay with this analogy of this vehicle and we need to charge the battery, where do I go? Well, where do we go to charge a battery? Well, now you're seeing more charging stations for your vehicle, which is great. But as a human being, where do I go to charge my battery? Of course, there could be multiple truths to this, but one place is a place called some balance. Now, that is an enigma as well. It's almost impossible to find balance forever. We find it at times in our lives, and at other times we lose balance. Your students right now are learning, they're writing assignments, they are overweight in in theory, in in the learning process, and so they might be struggling to find some physical balance. It's hard to find the time to go out for a run or or to go for a wonderful dinner with your spouse. Or spend time with your children. But it is a process of finding a little more balance. The only fundamental that we can say there is that when I'm in balance, my energy goes up. When I'm out of balance, my energy goes down. So is that true financially? Sure. Is it true physically? Absolutely. Is it true mentally, emotionally, relationally, spiritually? Absolutely. How you find your balance and how I find mine might be totally different. And so one small tip, if you like, uh, which we did with the delegates yesterday, was to think through some simple big yeses and big no's. What are the things that are just charging your battery and make them as simple as you can? Is it that swim that you need to go for? Is it the walk through Copenhagen? Uh is it just a bit of mindfulness? Is it reading the book that you've been sitting with all week at the, you know, on your bedside table? Uh is it dropping an email to a good friend? Um, is it meeting for a cup of coffee with somebody interesting? Uh, these are not necessarily life-changing moments, but they help us to find more balance through focusing on what are the big yeses. Similarly, there are also the big no's. What are the things that are draining your battery? And you're not going to get rid of all of them tomorrow. There might still be that brother-in-law who owes you money or that corruption that's going on in the municipality from which you live. But when I'm more aware of what are the things that drain my battery and what are the things that charge my battery, I'm able to place more focused attention on the things that may in fact increase my energy levels. And so a very simple tool or process, take a piece of paper, draw a line through half of it, and on the top half, just write down your big yeses. The things that charge your battery, that give you joy, that make you spark, that put a bit of lightness in your step. And then below the line, what are the things that feel a bit heavy for you? What are the things that are big nose? What are the things that you'd prefer to sort of slowly cut away if if you could? There's a beautiful, beautiful story that emerges from uh from the bushfelt of South Africa and uh the story Bring it on.

SPEAKER_05 24:20

I love your stories.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

The the story is of an old man who's carving away at these giraffes, uh, wooden giraffes, and they're tall and beautiful. And there's a young boy watching him, and after a while, the young boy asks him, How do you do that? How do you take these rough, ugly pieces of wood that are lying out here in the bush, and how do you turn them into these beautiful giraffes? And after a while, the old man says, It's quite simple, because all I do is I just chip away that which is not part of the giraffe. And there was a wonderful lesson there for me, and that was that you know, becoming more authentic, finding more balance, thinking about our energy isn't just about adding more things. It's not just adding uh a nicer car or a nicer dress or a faster bicycle or another degree or another diploma, these are important, but it is often about chipping away at the big nose. What are the things that are not part of us? What are the things that are maybe weighing our energy down? What are the things that are draining our batteries? Of course, the story doesn't end there because the child says, But how did you know that there was a giraffe inside that piece of wood? How did you know that? And the old man looks up and he smiles and he says, Well, that's also quite simple because when I was young, I knew exactly what I was. And all I've done as I've grown older is I've put on these protective layers of bark and masks and facades and pretenses to hide me from what I always was. All I need to do now is just chip away at the things that were not part of me in the first place and that will reveal that which I always was, which was unique, special, and never to be repeated. And so it sounds easy, it's not easy, but a simple start is to be very aware of what are the things that actually charge your battery and what are the things that drain it. And you might not get to all the things today that charge your battery, and you may not be able to chip away at all the things that drain your battery, but it becomes a journey. It becomes a journey where over a period of weeks, over a period of months, you can say, Wow, you know, I had golf uh as something that charges my battery. Have I actually played a round of golf in the last three months? And and and why not? Is it really a big yes or have I just not made the time? Um, spending time with my 17-year-old son is a big yes for me. Why have I not done it this week? Well, I've been in Copenhagen this week, but we're on an SMS and we're sending each other photos and we're establishing that connection still. Why? Because it's a big yes for me. Uh, my daughter is traveling in London with her cousins, and we're constantly on the WhatsApp group just to say, hey, this is where I am, and here's the photo of where I am, and so you can relive the experience even if you're not there. And so, in simple ways, think about what are your big yeses and what are your big no's. And over time, that's one example of maybe how we get a better idea of our energy and a better sense of our balance.

SPEAKER_04 27:33

Lovely. Yeah, just get started. I know, Steve, that one of your concepts um that you use a lot in order to help leaders to become better versions of themselves is this you know attempt to try to see the world through a different kind of lenses. And uh actually you did write a book about that. Um could could you please uh let us in on what led you to writing a book about it and and what are the essential you know the essential learnings on that, please?

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Yeah, thank you, Meda. Uh yeah, it um I think COVID and the COVID years um gave me one gift, and that was the gift of time. I suddenly had a lot of time on my hands, all the leadership work I was doing, the conferences, the workshops, the immersions into the bush, the tracking programs, the it was all gone because we couldn't do it face to face. And so I had days and days and days of time sitting around waiting for something to happen. I'd always been interested in writing. I'd always written stories and I'd always written a few anecdotes and and a few essays. And and so as I had all this time, I started to pull things together and and write a bit more and post something every day just to keep myself going. And more and more, as I got some confidence, I realized that there's some stories that can tell stories, there's stories that can grab an engagement, there's stories in three to five minutes that may help people think a little differently about resilience or about bravery or about courage or about leadership or about energy or about learning. Um, and and so I I gathered together many of my stories, and what emerged for me was a was a pattern. And I had worked with uh Stephen Covey many years ago in uh Utah in a little town called Provo in the book called The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And for many years I was part of a team of people in Southern Africa that ran that business, and we ran seven habits programs, and it was it was a fantastic time of my life. The basic fundamental model is what he refers to as the basic change model, but it's in many ways just three words called see, do, get. And the fundamental belief is that we get what we get because we do what we do, and we do what we do because we see what we see. And so his word that he used was paradigms. We have mental mind maps, we have pictures, we have experiences of the world that influence our behavior, and our behavior influences our outcomes, and if our outcomes reinforce our pictures of the world, we form habits. And so I looked at that as a model and said, Well, wonder what the pictures are of the world around us. What are causing the behaviors that we're seeing? And so, again, what emerged for me were six polarities, and the best way to think of a polarity uh is the act of breathing, right? So you've got to breathe in, that's called inhalation, that's a very important part of breathing, but at the same time, you've got to think about breathing out. Now, which one is more important? Well, of course, it's both, right? It's it's it's not that inhalation or exhalation, it's and both. It's I've got to manage this polarity. There are two sides of the opposite spectrum, and both of them are relevant. Both of them are true, and both of them are necessary. And so we must inhale and we must exhale, and that is just called managing a polarity. And so I looked at that and thought, well, I wonder what are the polarities I'm noticing. And so more and more I thought, well, is there a single truth of the world? On the other side of the spectrum, is that are there multiple truths? The answer is yes. Sometimes there is a single truth. Right now we are in a podcast, it is a truth. But how we lead in turbulent times, there may be multiple versions of that truth. Uh right now we're sitting here looking at a cell phone. This is a cell phone. Yes, let's agree. It's a single version of the truth. But what can you use your cell phone for these days? Multiple versions of the truth. It's also a camera, it's also a multifaceted tool. And so, somewhere along that line, if we are to get better levels of energy, we need to manage that polarity. I can't be at one side of the polarity for too long. A second one that I thought through was is the world a friendly place or an unfriendly place? Again, the answer is true. It is both friendly and unfriendly. Uh, in summer in Copenhagen, it's very difficult to think of an unfriendly world. It's just beautiful, the people are amazing, they're hospitable, they're sunny, they're shiny. But in certain parts of the world right now, it is not a friendly place. And again, I think we're seeing that all the time. Are we in a friendly place or an unfriendly place? And I'm not sure, but it might have been Einstein who said that the biggest decision we ever make in our lives is whether we see the world as a friendly place or an unfriendly place. What is our paradigm, our picture, our mental mind map of the world? And based on that, we're gonna have a very different behavior. And I know I had a lot of fun with this at the time of writing because my daughter was then 19, 17, 18, 18, and we we shared a lot of these stories together, and she did a lot of the filming for me. And I realized that even in my role as a father, I need to manage the polarity between a friendly and an unfriendly world. Because if I try and impose upon Hannah that the world is so unfriendly, don't go out, don't do this, don't get in the car, uh, don't ever have a boyfriend, you'll never, you know, don't even walk down to the shops where you must stay at home because the world is so unfriendly. Well, what's the outcome? What will be the do and what will be the get? Well, I'll have a hermit, I'll have a recluse, I'll have a daughter that never gets to see life because even the television is dangerous, you know. And and and so if I'm stuck on that side of the polarity, I'm not getting a good outcome. Similarly, if I'm only exhaling and I say to her, Hannah, don't worry, the world is so friendly, you must trust everybody. Go wherever you like, dress however you want, you know, uh uh, don't worry, there'll always be somebody to tuck you in at bed at night, trust everybody, come home whenever you want. No, it's not gonna necessarily give me the outcome either. So, somewhere in that balance between unfriendly and friendly, I need to find my own balance as a father. And so these polarities started to emerge, and all I really did was I illustrated them with stories of everyday people. How is it possible that you find a woman in KwaZulu-Natal who has no resources and yet is galvanizing her community around inclusivity, around growing vegetable gardens, around teaching people how to play chess? What does she have that the community down the road do not have and they sit in the tavern waiting for a government handout? Why is that possible? What's the difference? Well, she's got an energy, but she's certainly got a new set of lenses. She's got a lens of a friendly world, a world where potentially you can use energy and influence and not just power to get things done. And she does these extraordinary community activities. There's a recording studio for youth there. They're teaching people how to plant seeds. Uh, and she's doing it all because she sees the world as a friendly place, whereas many around her are seeing it as a desperately unfriendly place.

SPEAKER_04 35:45

Wow. It's again it it's it sounds it sounds easy, but when you're in in a situation, how how do you, you know, you know, winter shift, or you must have a lot of questions on that. Can you do that yourself, or would you need help to do it? Can you can you see your blind spots yourself? Or how how do we work with this?

SPEAKER_02 36:08

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, the very notion of a blind spot, of course, is that we can't see it ourselves. We often need a thinking partner, we need a trusted advisor, we need a mentor, we might need a coach, uh, we need somebody that can show us another set of lenses. And so partnerships are crucial to this journey. It's really difficult to do this all on your own. Yes, your battery is your battery, but you're also going to need some authentic relationships in your in your in your network, if you like, in your trusted uh friendship group or in your work uh space. And in very simple mathematics, there's adders and there's subtractors, there's multipliers and there's dividers, and they're all around us. What do these people look like to you? And what do you look like to them? What's the energy that you're bringing and what's the energy you're receiving? Is it positive? Is there some addition and is there even some multiplication? Or is everyone around me draining my energy and what am I doing to them? And so absolutely, these journeys are far better taken together in partnership, in relationship, because they just become a little easier along the way. There's still challenges, they're still full of uh there's no recipe to this. It's hard to say, well, you know, do these 10 things and you will charge your battery forever. Because for some people, steps numbers six, seven, and eight are irrelevant, or they prefer steps three and four to come at the end. It's it's a journey, it's a journey. But I think the fundamental thing is, am I aware? Am I really aware that my energy has a crucial determinant on my performance? And my energy has an impact on others that are around me. And the more aware I become, the more I start to see stories of energy, uh, stories of possibility, and also stories where there's been a lack of energy, uh, and therefore look at the outcomes.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

Do you have an example of another story where you met someone or you experienced something that was really a game changer in your way of viewing the world?

SPEAKER_02 38:14

Yes, I actually have quite recently met a um I've been incredibly privileged to do some work in the country of Sierra Leone. Uh Sierra Leone has also gone through some incredibly turbulent times. Uh brutal, brutal civil war uh in the early 2000s, I think finished in about 2001-2002. Ebola, uh, you know, we we we worried about COVID. I mean, they were they were getting real, real diseases there. Not that COVID isn't a real disease, but Ebola was next level. Um and the people of Sierra Leone are resilient. Uh, they're an extraordinary nation. Um, they've been through some incredibly, incredibly tough times. And I've been running some leadership immersions there, leadership weeks, uh, an opportunity to take leaders into completely different environments and allow them to see life through another set of lenses. There's an organization that uh I work with called FANT, a lovely acronym called Football for a New Tomorrow, F-A-N-T for a New Tomorrow, started by a young Danish woman actually in Sierra Leone, who is using football and handball as vehicles for social change. Yes, they teach a little bit about football and handball, but actually what they're doing is they're building community. They're building community through trust, through relationships, through purpose, through meaning, and then they can access those communities with valuable lessons about human dignity or about equality or about gender awareness. And so they're establishing these amazing communities through sport in Sierra Leone. One of the communities have called themselves the Flying Star Amputees, and it's incredibly humbling meta. These are amputees from the Civil War. All of them have either had their arms amputated by the rebel forces or legs blown off in landmines, and yet they've started a football league. There are 200 players and they play football. And the only prerequisite if you want to join them is of course you have to have an amputation, but the second prerequisite is that you're no longer allowed to beg. Begging, sitting on a street corner, waiting for people to give you money, in their eyes it's undignified. Their belief is that they are footballers, they are not beggars, and so they create this extraordinary community. And when they play football, boy, do they play football? They knock each other over, the crutches get broken, they're running repairs all the time, it's competitive. But when it's over, they are a community, they look after each other, they try and find each other jobs, but they don't beg. One of these extraordinary people is the team goalkeeper. And he has no hands. He has no hands at all. Both his hands were amputated by the rebel forces when he was young. And and he's the team goalkeeper, and he also sews the most beautiful beach bags out of this incredibly stunning West African linen. And and he sews them by putting the material in the cloth just with his stumps, and if he needs to put zips in, he can use his teeth. And his name is Abraham. And and he cannot give you a high five because he doesn't have five. He's got no hands, got no fingers. He can't give you a high five. But boy, he can give you a high five from his heart. And so when you meet a guy like Abraham, you can't look at the world the same way again. You can't say that things are impossible. You can't say that, wow, my energy should be high because I'm here. He's got an energy, he's got an extraordinary ability to see life through another set of lenses. When everything around him surely must give him a negative view, he's got a positive view. And so I think when we're aware, we see these stories all the time. We see these stories of people that choose to see life differently. And maybe therein lies part of the answer is what are we choosing?

SPEAKER_04 42:41

So it's up to us to choose to take the time to look for those stories. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_02 42:46

I think it is. I think it is. And and have some fun along the way. You know, lighten up about it and and look for stories where you've seen some amazing energy. It could happen in a football game, it could happen in your in your child's hockey game, uh, it could happen while you're having a swim across the harbor. Uh, you can notice stories of energy in the traffic, you can notice stories of energy on the news. Um, you can see times when there's energy and times when there's not energy, and times where you go into your favorite restaurant and you get treated so beautifully. It's an energy issue. And the reason why you go back to that same restaurant, yeah, the food is probably good, but the energy's good. You get served well. Uh why do you go to your favorite holiday destination? Well, maybe there's a cheaper one. Or maybe there's not, but it's you feel a good energy. It's what they do to the charge in your battery. And the more aware we become of it, I think the more it's gonna become mainstream thinking that I can't just think about my skills. I must also take into consideration what is my energy? What is this doing to the state of my battery and particularly the batteries of the people around me.

SPEAKER_04 44:00

Thank you so much, Steve. I could listen to you and your stories for hours and hours, but we weta round up now.